CNN "Newsroom" - Transcript Interview with Stacey Abrams

Interview

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BOLDUAN: Joining me right now is Stacey Abrams, former Georgia gubernatorial candidate and founder of Fair Fight Action.

Thank you for being here.

You have heard more of what Governor Kemp said this morning. Georgians don't need a mandate to do the right thing, he says. What do you say to that?

STACEY ABRAMS (D), FORMER GEORGIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I would say that the evidence of our eyes belies the notions that he may hold.

We know that Georgia is one of the 18 states that has the fastest growing cases of coronavirus. We know that a disproportionate number of black and brown communities are being affected by it. And these are the people who are compelled by both state law and federal law. If they want to keep their jobs, they have to keep going to work, exposing themselves.

We know that the best evidence, including evidence from an unpublished task force report from the White House, says that mandating masks is a good thing. And this notion that a mandate, if it can't be absolutely enforced, should never be issued would undermine the necessity of most of the laws we have in this country.

One of the reasons we require things is to signal that it is important. And suggesting that people take care of themselves and those around them is an insufficient way to address a scourge and a pandemic.

BOLDUAN: You hit on one of the reasons that the governor gives for why he doesn't want to -- you can't mandate masks, because he says it can't be enforced.

But another reason that he has laid out more than once is that he thinks that mask mandates hurt business. Do you see that?

ABRAMS: Well, given that the largest retailer in the country, and I think one of the largest in the world, Walmart, has declared that they are going to require masks undermines even that argument.

It is not sufficient to say that we want to reopen the economy by killing our consumers. And that's the choice he's telling us to make. And while he's using Atlanta as a proxy for this war, this is a war not only against Atlanta. It's a war against Savannah, Augusta. It's a war against the people of Georgia, who elected him to lead, not to suggest.

BOLDUAN: One thing that Mayor Bottoms brings up is that the governor names her personally in the lawsuit, along with the City Council. And that has more than -- more than a small group of people suggesting that one goal here, then, it looks like, from the governor is to try and tarnish a potential Democratic vice presidential candidate as she is being talked about, and you are as well.

Do you think that is at least in part what the governor is doing here?

ABRAMS: I do my best not to investigate the political motives of Brian Kemp, because what he's been willing to do to the people of Georgia, both as secretary of state and as governor, suggest that he does not care about the people of Georgia.

But what I will say is that his targeting of Mayor Bottoms, his targeting of Mayor Johnson, his targeting of Mayor Davis, and his willingness to throw aside the needs of the people they serve, the constituents he swore to serve, his willingness to throw them aside, is a signal of his avarice and his lack of moral leadership.

BOLDUAN: It's a bit head-scratching, I must say, because, if you just take it on its face, his position is inherently confusing.

He is encouraging people to wear masks. He even went on a statewide tour to promote mask wearing. But, still, he does not see and he will not mandate it. I'm trying to figure out -- look, you ran against him in a contentious governor's race. So you have been around him and his politics more than most.

Can you explain that kind of inherent contradiction or confusion with how he's laying this out?

ABRAMS: This isn't confusion. Brian Kemp is a coward.

He is afraid that he will alienate the president of the United States, who has also signaled his ambivalence about masks. He is afraid that he will alienate a Republican Party that he believes may not stand with him in reelection if he goes against the minority declaring that masks are somehow an infringement on their liberty.

But, most of all, he is a coward because he refuses to use the pulpit of leadership to tell people what they need to do to save not only their lives, but the lives of the more vulnerable around them.

This is not a moment -- a moment of contradiction. It is not a moment of confusion. It is an act of cowardice.

BOLDUAN: I'd even argue, I'm sure there are a lot of Georgians, even if they don't want to wear masks, if the governor made the mandate, they'd still probably vote for him, if they voted for him before.

[15:20:02]

I'm just saying, as an outside watcher of it all.

On the topic, though, of Joe Biden's running mate, the vice president is in the final stages of vetting and is expected to be making his announcement at the beginning of next month, I think, is the latest guidance.

Have you had a direct conversation with Joe Biden about the V.P. slot since the vetting process began?

ABRAMS: I refer all questions about vetting to the Biden administration -- the Biden campaign.

BOLDUAN: And I appreciate that very succinct answer, as one should probably give if they're under consideration.

What have you -- how have you found -- can you describe, how have you found this process to be? It's an unusual thing.

ABRAMS: Are you talking about the campaign, writ large?

BOLDUAN: I'm talking -- no, no, the vetting process.

You have been very vocal about what you know you're capable of and what you would like to do. And the vetting process for a vice presidential candidate is, I think, one of the more unique processes that there is in American politics.

How have you found this vetting process?

ABRAMS: I will say that I have spent 16 months answering the question, would I be willing to serve as vice president?

And I recently got the question, am I capable? I have responded to both of those questions in the affirmative, because it is critical to me that we speak, that we answer questions directly when we can, and that we always, especially as a woman of color, that I never diminish what I believe I'm capable of or the capacity of others who look like me.

But I again say that the process itself is being run by the Biden campaign. And I direct all questions about the process to them.

BOLDUAN: As someone who I know you like to answer questions directly, this is particularly a strange position, I know, that you find yourself in with having to redirect to the Biden campaign.

But, regardless, it's great to see you.

(CROSSTALK)

ABRAMS: Well, Kate, it's the direct answer. The direct answer is, if you want an answer, go to the Biden campaign.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLDUAN: I will take it.

Thanks for coming on. I appreciate your time.

ABRAMS: Thank you. Take care.

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